Table of Contents
This family group is rather large and so to aid readability it is split across a few parts.
G8: George Profit (1761-1834) and Mary Williams (1769-1842)
We know from Edward’s baptism that his parents were George and Mary. There are far fewer original sources of corroboration for ancestors who lived before civil registration and the census. A George Profit was born in Gwespyr in 1761 to Joseph and Margaret and was christened in nearby Llanasa on 1 August. A George Profit also married a Mary Williams on 28 February 1789. We do not know whether these are the same people as Edward’s parents. It is a reasonable assumption given the relatively unusual surname within a small community but should perhaps be taken with a pinch of salt.
G7: Edward Profit (1795-1851) and Dorothy Hughes (1797-1855)
Birth: Edward Profit was born in North Wales during 1795 to George and Mary.
Christening: on 6 December 1795 in Llanasa.
Marriage: to Dorothy Hughes on 26 May 1826 in Llanasa. He was aged 31 and she was 29.
Spouse history: nothing about Dorothy’s earlier life is known.
Children: (1) Mary in 1827, (2) Marian in 1829, (3) Joseph in 1831, (4) Elizabeth in 1836, (5) Susannah in 1840.
Residences: the young family first lived in Trelogan in 1827, then moved on to Newmarket (today known as Trelawnyd) for a few years before living in Axton in 1836 – three villages all within a mile of each other. By 1841 they lived amongst the cluster of houses known as Berllan, just outside of Gwespyr village.
Occupations: Edward originally laboured as a miner, but by 1841 was working the land.
Deaths: Edward died in January 1851 when aged 56. Dorothy survived him for only a few years and died in May 1855 when aged 58.
Notes: some online trees have Dorothy as Dorothy Lewis, a namesake who lived in the area at the same time. However, this is incorrect since that Dorothy married a John Profit.
G6: Mary Profit (1827-)
Birth: Mary Profit was born in Trelogan during 1827. She was the first child of Edward and Dorothy.
Christening: on 22 February 1827 in Llanasa.
Notes: it’s likely that Mary died in 1845 when aged just 17, but further confirmation is needed. There is no other obvious record of her.
G6: Miriam Profit (1829-)
Birth: Miriam Profit was born in Newmarket during 1829. She was the second child of Edward and Dorothy.
Christening: on 8 June 1829 in Newmarket.
Occupations: Miriam entered service and in 1851 worked as a dairy maid in the household of Rev. Rowland Williams, the vicar of Ysceifiog, a hamlet about nine miles south of Gwespyr.
Notes: she is cited as Marian on the 1841 census, but all other information points to her being called Miriam. She perhaps married John Price in 1856 in Lampeter, but further confirmation is required.
G6: Joseph Profit (1831-1890)
Birth: Joseph Profit was born in Newmarket during 1831. He was the third child of Edward and Dorothy.
Christening: on 14 August 1831 in Newmarket.
Marriage: to Amelia Madden on 9 February 1856 at the Parish Church in nearby Llanasa. They were both aged 25.
Spouse history: Amelia had been born in 1831 to stonemason James Madden and wife Catherine and had grown up in Gwespyr.
Children: (1) Catherine in 1857, (2) Edward in 1859, (3) Mary in 1864, (4) James in 1868.
Occupations: Joseph worked both as a labourer and a carter before beginning to work the land. In 1871 he laboured at Llawndy Farm, which was on land that had been reclaimed from the sea half a century before. With the coming of the industrial revolution he left agriculture to work in the blast furnaces of the Mostyn ironworks, becoming the first of four generations to do so.
Residences: by 1861 the young family lived on Marsh Farm, somewhere in the area surrounding Gwespyr, moving to Llawndy Farm in nearby Trewaelod over the next decade. After Amelia’s death, Joseph moved in with daughter Catherine.
- Joseph: Berllan, Gwespyr (1841-1856); Marsh Farm, Gwespyr (1861); Llawndy Farm, Trewaelod (1871); Halendy, Mostyn (1881)
- Amelia: Marsh Farm, Gwespyr (1861); Llawndy Farm, Trewaelod (1871)
Deaths: Amelia died at the end of 1876 when aged just 45. Joseph died in early 1890 when aged 58.
G5: Catherine Profit (1857-1931)
Birth: Catherine Profit was born in Llanasa during 1857. She was the first child of Joseph and Amelia.
Marriage: to John Cliff on 20 December 1880 in Bagillt. She was aged 23 and he was 24.
Spouse history: John had been born in 1856, the first child of James Cliff and the unusually named Zipher Lovatt. They lived in Hanley, Staffordshire (which eventually became part of Stoke-on-Trent), with John being christened at Holy Trinity Church in September. His father was a blast furnaceman, with the family living on Marsh Street, later moving to York Street. Over the next decade they moved north to Ince-in-Makerfield near Wigan, occupying a house on the main Belle Green Lane. It’s not known when John moved to North Wales.
Children: (1) Amelia in 1881, (2) Joseph in 1884, (3) Rachel in 1886, (4) James in 1888, (5) William in 1891, (6) John in 1892, (7) Thomas in 1895, (8) Mary in 1897, (9) Catherine in 1900. William, John and Catherine all died in childhood.
Occupations: John followed in his father’s footsteps and for most of his life worked as a blast furnaceman in the Mostyn ironworks.
Residences: in 1881 the newlyweds lived in Mostyn in one of the houses that ran alongside the railway tracks to the south of Mostyn Quay in an area known as Halendy. Joining them there were Catherine’s widowed father and younger brother James, and John’s siblings 11-year-old Joseph and 17-year-old Mary Cliff. Little changed over the next decade and in 1891 they lived on Marsh Row, still with their brothers James and Joseph.
- Catherine: Marsh Farm, Gwespyr (1861); Halendy, Mostyn (1881); 8 Marsh Row, Mostyn (1891-1901); 23 Marsh Row, Mostyn (1911-1921)
- John: Marsh Street, Stoke-on-Trent (1856); York Street, Stoke-on-Trent (1861); Belle Green Lane, Ince-in-Makerfield (1871); Halendy, Mostyn (1881); Marsh Row, Mostyn (1886-1901); 23 Marsh Row, Mostyn (1908-1917)
Deaths: John died during the winter of 1919 when aged 64. Catherine died a decade later when aged 74.
Notes: 14-year-old Catherine is missing from the 1871 census.
G4: Amelia Zylpha Cliff (1881-1914)
Birth: Amelia Zylpha Cliff was born in Mostyn on 22 August 1881. She was the first child of John and Catherine.
School: attended Lady Augusta’s School from 1885.
Marriage: to William Edwards during 1908 in Chester. She was aged 26 and he was 27.
Spouse history: nothing is known about William’s early life.
Children: (1) John in 1908, (2) Thomas in 1909, (3) John in 1911. Amelia was heavily pregnant with John when she married William, but sadly he and brother Thomas died as babies.
Occupations: Amelia entered service and in 1901 worked as a general domestic for publican William Kelly and family on Church Street in Connah’s Quay. William became part of the army of labourers working in the blast furnaces of the of Mostyn ironworks.
Residences: the newlyweds initially lived with Amelia’s parents before moving to Greenfield 1909. They returned to Mostyn before 1911 when they had a house of their own back on Marsh Row. After Amelia’s untimely death William moved in with her parents, probably so that their son could be cared for while he worked.
- Amelia: Marsh Row, Mostyn (1886-1891); 43 Church Street, Connah’s Quay (1901); Abbey View, Greenfield (1909); 16 Marsh Row, Mostyn (1911)
- William: Abbey View, Greenfield (1909); 16 Marsh Row, Mostyn (1911); 23 Marsh Row, Mostyn (1921)
Deaths: Amelia died at the end of 1914 when aged just 33. Due to the commonality of William’s name nothing further is known.
G3: John William Edwards (1908-1910)
Birth: John William Edwards was born in Mostyn during 1908. He was the first child of William and Amelia.
Christening: on 28 June 1908 in Mostyn.
Residences: Marsh Row, Mostyn (1908); Abbey View, Greenfield (1909)
Death: died in early 1910.
G3: Thomas James Edwards (1909)
Birth: Thomas James Edwards was born in Mostyn during 1909. He was the second child of William and Amelia.
Christening: on 16 September 1909 in Mostyn.
Residences: Abbey View, Greenfield (1909)
Death: died later in 1909.
G3: John William Edwards (1911-)
Birth: John William Edwards was born in Mostyn during 1911. He was the third child of William and Amelia but the only one to survive infancy. He was also their second to be named John William.
Christening: on 6 April 1911 in Mostyn.
Residences: 16 Marsh Row, Mostyn (1911); 23 Marsh Row, Mostyn (1921)
Notes: due to the commonality of his name nothing further is known, although it’s possible that he died in 1934.
G4: Joseph Edward Cliff (1883-)
Birth: Joseph Edward Cliff was born in Mostyn during April 1883. He was the second child of John and Catherine.
School: attended Lady Augusta’s School from 1886.
Occupations: Joseph followed in his father’s footsteps and went to work tending the furnaces of the ironworks.
Residences: Joseph lived at home until at least 1921, by which time he was aged 38.
- Marsh Row, Mostyn (1886-1901); 23 Marsh Row, Mostyn (1908-1921).
Notes: it’s possible that the National Register of 1939 recorded Joseph in the North Wales County Mental Hospital. He likely died in 1942.
G4: Rachel Cliff (1886-)
Birth: Rachel Cliff was born in Mostyn on 14 February 1886. She was the third child of John and Catherine.
Christening: on 17 May 1886 in Mostyn.
School: attended Lady Augusta’s School from 1888.
Marriage: to John Lloyd Griffiths during 1910 in Liverpool. She was aged 23 and he was 26. It’s not known why they married in the city.
Spouse history: nothing is known about John’s early life.
Children: (1) Doris in 1910, (2) John in 1913, (3) Catherine in 1916.
Residences: when the 1911 census was taken, mother and daughter lived with her parents on Marsh Lane. It’s possible that John was living with his uncle Elias and family on Salisbury Street in Liverpool. The family moved to nearby Bagillt by 1921 where they had one of the cottages on Rising Sun, just outside of the village.
- John: 1 Rising Sun, Bagillt (1913-1921)
- Rachel: Marsh Row, Mostyn (1886-1901); 23 Marsh Row, Mostyn (1908-1911); 1 Rising Sun, Bagillt (1913-1939)
Occupations: before her marriage Rachel worked as a dressmaker. The 1921 census recorded John as an unemployed labourer who had last worked above ground at the Bettisfield Colliery.
Deaths: John died in September 1924 when aged just 40. Due to the commonality of Rachel’s name, nothing further is known.
G3: Doris Griffiths (1910-1978)
Birth: Doris Griffiths was born in Mostyn on 15 August 1910. She was the first child of newlyweds John and Rachel, born a few months after their marriage.
Christening: on 25 September 1910 in Mostyn.
Marriage: to John Harold Hulley during 1942 in Holywell. She was aged 31 and he was 28.
Spouse history: John had been born near Flint on 18 December 1913, the fourth child of Joseph Albert Hurley and Elizabeth Cartwright. He was christened in January 1914 and was commonly known as Jack. His father was an ironworker who was killed fighting in Iraq during April 1917. The family lived just off the road that ran along the coast between Flint and Oakenholt. They had one of the half dozen terraced houses that made Gardner’s Row throughout his childhood, and indeed he still resided there with his widowed mother when the National Register was taken in 1939.
Children: (1) John in 1942, (2) a boy in 1944, (3) a girl in 1950.
Occupations: 28-year-old Doris still lived at home when the National Register was taken in 1939. Like her younger sister Catherine, she worked in a rayon factory where she was a ‘foremistress’. John meanwhile was a postman.
Residences:
- Doris: 23 Marsh Row, Mostyn (1910-1911); 1 Rising Sun, Bagillt (1921-1939)
- John: 4 Gardner’s Row, Flint (1914-1939)
Deaths: Doris died in the summer of 1978 when aged 67. John died a few months later in Truro, Cornwall.
Birth: John Eric Lloyd Hulley was born in North Wales on 10 December 1942. He was the first child of John and Doris.
Death: on 30 November 1993 when aged 50.
Nothing is known of his life.
G3: John Isaac Griffiths (1913-1998)
Birth: John Isaac Griffiths was born in Bagillt on 30 August 1913. He was the second child of John and Rachel.
Christening: on 21 September 1913 in Bagillt.
Occupations: John worked as a motor mechanic.
Residences: 1 Rising Sun, Bagillt (1913-1939)
Death: John died in Flintshire at the end of 1998 when aged 85.
Notes: it’s very likely that he married Olwen E. Austin in 1942, but due to the commonality of his name further information is required.
G3: Catherine Patricia Griffiths (1916-1987)
Birth: Catherine Patricia Griffiths was born in Bagillt on 17 March 1916. She was the third child of John and Rachel and their only daughter.
Christening: on 21 May 1916 in Bagillt.
Marriage: to Charles Eric McCarter during 1939 in Holywell. They were both aged 22.
Spouse history: Charles had been born on 28 August 1916 – the second child of John McCarter and Mary Owen. The family lived in the small seaside town of Llanfairfechan, between Llandudno and Bangor. His father worked for the railways and in 1921 was a leading porter and deputy signalman at the local station, progressing by 1939 to be the station master at Golborne in Lancashire. During the war his parents moved to Otley in Yorkshire, where they lived in the station house on Chevin Side.
Children: none.
Occupations: 23-year-old Doris still lived at home when the National Register was taken in 1939. Like her elder sister Doris, she worked in a rayon factory where she was a ‘twister’. Charles meanwhile had followed in his footsteps and worked as a clerk for the railways but was also trained as an assistant controller.
Military service: Charles was commissioned as a 2nd Lieutenant in the Royal Corps of Signals on 29 March 1944, with service number 314624.
Residences: post-war, Charles and Catherine moved to Otley, where they lived with his parents until getting a home of their own in 1948.
- Catherine: 1 Rising Sun, Bagillt (1916-1939); Station House, Chevin Side, Otley (1945-1948); 59 Boroughgate, Otley (1949-1959)
- Charles: Hillside, Llanfairfechan (1921); Station House, Chevin Side, Otley (1945-1948); 59 Boroughgate, Otley (1949-1959)
Deaths: Catherine died in Ipswich during May 1987 when aged 71. Charles survived her for four years and died in 1991 when aged 75.
G4: James Cliff (1888-)
Birth: James Cliff was born in Mostyn on 8 October 1888. He was the fourth child of John and Catherine.
Christening: on 5 March 1889 in Mostyn.
Military service: James enlisted into the army where he became a specialist cyclist. With a bicycle, an armed man could move relatively quickly across even poor ground and with longer range than if he was marching. Early in the war the British created the Army Cyclist Corps and attached a company to each division. Recruitment efforts aimed to attract men who were already cyclists, or who were at least interested in things mechanical. James joined the 25th Divisional Cyclist Company with service number 2926 and arrived in France during September 1915. Their primary role was reconnaissance and communications, although they were armed as infantry and could provide mobile firepower if required. After the war descended into static trench warfare, the men were used for trench-holding duties, manual work, and patrol work in the rear areas. In May and June 1916, the divisional cyclist companies were withdrawn to form a cyclist battalion for each corps headquarters, and thus James joined the 17th Corps Cyclist Battalion. He remained with them until discharged in December 1918, at which time he held the rank of Corporal.
Marriage 1: to Barbara Jones on 20 January 1917 at Christ Church, Mostyn. He was aged 28 and she was 25.
Spouse history: Barbara’s history is a little confusing. She was born in 1892 to Mary Ellen Jones and was likely illegitimate, with neither her birth registration nor baptism record citing a father. The latter records them living at the King’s Head Inn run by her maternal grandparents. Interestingly, Barbara was christened alongside her aunt Elizabeth who was the same age. There is no further record of Barbara living with her biological mother again. The 1901 and 1911 censuses both record her living at the King’s Head with her maternal grandmother using the name Barbara Jones – and cited as her daughter rather than granddaughter. It’s likely that she was raised by her grandmother as her own. Her mother married Ernest Parry in 1895 and went on to have seven more children. It’s not known why Barbara called herself Parry and cited Ernest as her father on her marriage certificate. Perhaps he was her biological father?
Children: (1) Zilpha in 1918, (2) Thomas in 1921.
Death: Barbara died in 1927 when aged just 35.
Marriage 2: to Alice Mary Whittle during 1931. He was aged 42 and she was 28.
Spouse history: Alice was a decade younger than James and had been born on 8 April 1902 to Thomas Whittle and Annie Connelly, who was originally from Ireland. She attended Lady Augusta’s School and lived just down the road from her future husband on Marsh Row.
Children: James and Alice likely had two children, but confirmation is required.
Occupations: James joined his father and two brothers as a labourer in the blast furnaces of the Mostyn ironworks behind their home. He worked there for his entire life.
Residences: when the 1921 census was taken the young family lived at the King’s Head, where Barbara had been raised. Following her death, James and new wife Alice moved into his own childhood home on Marsh Row.
- James: 8 Marsh Row, Mostyn (1888-1901); 23 Marsh Row, Mostyn (1908-1911); King’s Head, Mostyn (1921); 23 Marsh Row, Mostyn (1939)
- Barbara: King’s Head, Mostyn (1892-1921)
- Alice: 7 Marsh Row, Mostyn (1911-1921); 23 Marsh Row, Mostyn (1939)
Deaths: James died in 1968 when aged 80. Alice survived him for 15 years and died in 1983 when aged 81.
G3: Zilpha Cliff (1918-2009)
Birth: Zilpha Cliff was born in Mostyn on 8 February 1918. She was the first child of James and Barbara. Her unusual name, taken from the Old Testament, was a family tradition.
Marriage: to widower John Whittle during 1940 in Holywell. She was aged 21 and she was 33.
Spouse history: John had been born in Mostyn on 15 May 1906 and was the younger brother of her stepmother Alice. It is not known who his first wife was, but he had a daughter called Sheila.
Children: it’s likely that they had two children in 1943 and 1945, but confirmation is required.
Residences: Zilpha and John already lived together in 1939, having a house a little further up the coast in Ffynnongroyw.
- Zilpha: King’s Head, Mostyn (1921); 7 Williams Place, Ffynnongroyw (1939); Middle Wood, Ffynnongroyw (2004-2008); Priory House, Gronant Road, Prestatyn (2009)
- John: 7 Marsh Row, Mostyn (1911-1921); 7 Williams Place, Ffynnongroyw (1939)
Occupations: despite only being aged 15 in 1921, John was a labourer in the timber yards of R.D. Owens. By 1939 he worked in the bleaching department of one of the local silk works, while meanwhile Zilpha was a housekeeper.
Deaths: John died in 1996 when aged 89. Zilpha survived him for 13 years and died on 27 May 2009 when aged 91. She spent the final year of her life in the Priory House nursing home in Prestatyn.
G3: Thomas Edward Cliff (1921-2002)
Birth: Thomas Edward Cliff was born in Mostyn on 18 September 1921. He was the second child of James and Barbara.
Occupations: Thomas had by 1939 followed his father and grandfather into labouring on the blast furnaces of the Mostyn ironworks.
Residences: 23 Marsh Row, Mostyn (1939)
Death: Thomas died in Liverpool on 4 March 2002 when aged 80.
Notes: it’s likely that he married Margaret Oliver Atherton in 1955, although a newspaper article about the wedding mentions that his brother was the best man – except our Thomas had no known brother.
G4: William Cliff (1891)
Birth: William Cliff was born in Mostyn during 1891. He was the fifth child of John and Catherine.
Christening: on 13 October 1891 in Mostyn.
Residences: Marsh Row, Mostyn (1891)
Death: later in 1891.
Military service: Don joined the Royal Navy (service number P/MX 60088) and became a Chief Petty Officer.
G4: John Cliff (1892-1894)
Birth: John Cliff was born in Mostyn during 1892. He was the sixth child of John and Catherine.
Christening: on 23 October 1892 in Mostyn.
Residences: Marsh Row, Mostyn (1892-1894)
Death: in 1894 when aged two.
G4: Thomas William Cliff (1895-1917)
Birth: Thomas William Cliff was born in Mostyn during 1895. He was the seventh child of John and Catherine.
Christening: on 7 March 1895 in Mostyn.
Occupations: despite only being 16 when the 1911 census was taken, Thomas had already followed his father and three older brothers into labouring at the Mostyn ironworks.
Residences: Marsh Row, Mostyn (1895-1901); 23 Marsh Row, Mostyn (1908-1911)
Military service: Thomas joined the 5th (Flintshire) Battalion, Royal Welch Fusiliers in March 1912, which was a unit of the Territorial Force. He was mobilised immediately upon war breaking out in August 1914, but his 53rd (North Wales) Division remained at home until July 1915. When they eventually sailed it was not to France, but to Gallipoli where they were to join the reinforcements sent to seize the strategic peninsula by landing at Suvla Bay to attack the Turks from the rear. After landing unopposed they were thrown into a brief attack before being forced into trenches, where they remained until evacuated four months later. Thomas missed most of this though as he was evacuated with dysentery on 30 August.
After the failure of the expedition the Division was withdrawn to Alexandria in Egypt during December 1915 where they joined the 70,000 strong forces guarding the strategically vital Suez Canal. After a year of garrison duties, they joined the Desert Column in January 1917, which had successfully pushed the Turks out of the Sinai and were looking to advance on Jerusalem. Gaza was the first steppingstone, and an attack was launched on 26 March with the 53rd Division heavily involved. Sadly, Thomas was killed during this action.
Death: Thomas is remembered on the Jerusalem Memorial, commemorating 3,300 Commonwealth servicemen who died during the First World War in operations in Egypt or Palestine and who have no known grave.
G4: Mary Susannah Cliff (1897-)
Birth: Mary Susannah Cliff was born in Mostyn on 22 December 1897. She was the eighth child of John and Catherine.
Christening: on 24 February 1898 in Mostyn.
School: attended Lady Augusta’s School.
Residences: Marsh Row, Mostyn (1897-1901); 23 Marsh Row, Mostyn (1908-1911)
Notes: there is no further record of Mary. Some online sources claim that she married Iorwerth Jones, but her birth date on the 1939 Register and the school registration records do not match.
G4: Catherine Cliff (1900-1912)
Birth: Catherine Cliff was born in Mostyn during 1900. She was the ninth child of John and Catherine.
Residences: Marsh Row, Mostyn (1901); 23 Marsh Row, Mostyn (1908-1912)
Death: died in 1912 when aged 11.
